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Episode
204
Violations
The Ullians who are visiting the Enterprise have a unique talent for helping people retrieve lost memories. When that power is exploited, though, it’s a dangerous and invasive procedure that leaves Deanna Troi, Dr. Crusher and Commander Riker in comas. Who is to blame for the psychic assault? Find out when “Violations” got into the Mission Log.
You did a really good job with this one. Very respectful. Thank you.
The one thing I think would have added to the conversation is a discussion of how often rape is used in reference to female characters. Tasha and the rape gangs. This is not Deanna’s first assault. Forcibly impregnated while Riker is angry about who the father is. 😡
This is the best they’ve dealt with it, but the writers in all the series do have many rape episodes for the women. Rape is serious, but the framing here of women being raped is an ugly one. It bears thinking about as a whole within the Star Trek universe.
I have only watched this episode once. I don’t think I could’ve done what you did in preparation for the show. Hard topic. Great job. 🐝
I’ve seen it a few times and it’s totally forgetable. The writers, I imagine mostly feminists, love talking about rape so I’m pretty sure there are more episodes that are allusions of women being raped that we just don’t think of as such. For example, the episode mentioned where Troi and Riker are abducted by the ferengi. Many feminists would likely consider that a rape episode even though most people wouldn’t.
And there are plenty of women being subjugated by the patriarchy episodes too. If you really start to think about it, there are quite a lot of episodes where “the patriarchy is holding these strong women down” but framed so that it on the surface it might not appear to be so, but upon analyzing it, you can easily make the argument.
Umm, you really have odd views of feminism.
Wait, so are you anti feminists – because you use the word like a derogatory term? Or are you pro feminism, because you take up the argument about how women appear to be subjugated by men on Star Trek? Maybe if you were less angry at whatever it is you’re angry about, you’d realise that we’re all in this together, and from what you wrote it seems you hate all forms of subjugation. I think most people would agree with you on that one.
I’m definitely anti-feminist. And I am not angry other than at all the sexism and such that feminists push while saying they’re not sexist.
What you seem to not understand here is that I’m pointing out that a feminist would call things patriarchy and rape that aren’t. The situations themselves may be terrible, or not, in themselves, but there are two issues that arise… In one case they aren’t there and as such you are misunderstanding reality which you really should fix about yourself, OR in the other case they are there and they are pushing myths that warp people’s perceptions of the world. Both of which cause massive problems.
I didn’t think Lwaxana was raped in “Menage a Trois” . I felt like she was taking one for the team to seduce the Ferengi.
Consensual intercourse under duress is still illegal. Don’t forget they were kidnapped and he basically intimated that she will have to sleep with him eventually. It’s like telling a woman that she can only get a promotion if she has sex with the boss. The act is consensual but also illegal. Because it’s not just about ‘consent’. It’s about whether a person *wants* to have sex.
See what I’m saying?
It’s not rape, but feminists will say it is.
They want to teach consent classes, but as shown, don’t know how consent works.
And they certainly don’t hold men and women to the same standards and this is why a man and a woman can get equally black out drunk, have consensual sex, and the man is guilty of rape and the woman is a victim of rape. Even though the same thing happened to both of them. This is the stuff the feminism promotes and why it’s laughable when they say it’s about equality.
You can’t make seduction illegal.
And why would anyone ever even want to?!?
I’ve always considered Devernali Raal in The Price to be the archetypal Star Trek rapist.
Only, that doesn’t count (we say), because she decided that she was into it.
How can we know she was ever even attracted to Raal in the first place? That might just have been a “strong suggestion” he just implanted, Spock-style, in her head the moment they first touched minds.
That certainly seems to have been the case with Raal’s “travelling companion”, since he is able to MAKE HER LEAVE when he just decides to abandon that particular concubine in favour of picking up Troi and then going directly round to stalk her at her work, play with her hair without permission, grope her face and scalp and get to work on getting her drunk.
So there certainly is a massive double-standard at work, here.
It’s not that any of those other psychics tried to force themselves on Troi, mentally or physically, it’s the fact that they used brutality and violenc and didn’t bother to try to get her drunk first.
There’s also this very interesting concept which crops up later in The Dark Page that between members of races of True Telepaths, there is no such thing as a personal violation or repression because all parts of everyone’s mind are open to everyone else all the time, and there are no secrets or inhibitions – which certainly explains everything you would ever need to know about Mrs. Troi.
There is no such thing as privacy or consent – they don’t exist, these Telepaths have no conception of them. So therefore, there is no concept of rape, or of trauma.
The only reason it’s POSSIBLE for Troi to experience violation, or to deny or to give consent is because she’s NOT a True Telepath – if she were, she wouldn’t be subject to being victimised. Because if you met a potential seducer/rapist, either you would convince him, or he would convince you and the one with the most powerful expression of their personal will would prevail and get their own way.
By far the most revealing and important line in The Price is where Troi admits to her best friend that she is currently being groomed for rape by her new stalker – and NOBODY CARES.
What she actually says is “I feel completely out of control!” – the romantic, feminist Mills & Boon reading of this line which the episode itself clearly takes is “She is under the control of her own erotic passions and hormones, unleashed, so this is health”
My interpretation and reaction upon hearing that lie is “Well, maybe that means someone is controlling you then.
In the Buffyverse (which is *actually* pro-feminist, rather than just pretending to be or aspiring to be) whenever the identical situation occurs, the FIRST, second and third reaction of every one of that person’s friends is “She’s under some kind of spell.” – often and usually to an absurd degree.
Both cases, this reflects the very Real World failure of human psychology to fully reconcile empowerment, masochism, submission and self-harm though risky behaviour and edgy sex in dangerous or unwise situations with bad people – the reason Troi lives like a nun and burries herself in her work (and Choccolate) after Riker rejects and abandons her is unhealthy and self-harming; the fact that she submits so easily and so quickly and completely to Devernali Raal is masochistic and healthy and ultimately empowering, following a one-week binge and purge of amazing, empty sex and vacant eroticism.
What Raal does to her (and with her) is not traumatic; what Riker did to her a decade earlier by just ditching her WAS traumatic and led to at least 15 years of self-harming masochitic decision-making.
To live like a nun is a perfectly valid and healthy lifestyle choice; to live like a nun in a world with no God (and no religion, too) is a living Hell of Purgatory.
And Riker is a terrible person. By mistake.
While I get the the Metaphor, it doesn’t hold up when you think about it…
The violation that Jev is inflicting on people that we mainly focus on isn’t a violation and saying it is really is rather disturbing. What he is doing is making his victims experience something that they probably don’t want. We do this every day if we’re in any sort of debate. In fact I’m doing it to you right now, because as you read this i am making you experience a line of thought that you probably don’t want. How thuroughly Jev can do it is different, but what he is essentially doing is no different. You can argue that it is harassment very loosely simply because he knows that what he is doing is something that a reasonable person wouldn’t want. The only solid case for a criminal activity is the coma that is induced. If that didn’t happen what he is doing is comparable to subjecting someone to watching a scary movie… Or causing them to experience a nightmare which there is some evidence that we can do through speaking to someone who is dreaming. Are you going to claim that’s a crime? Or even a violation? I think not.
———-
The last 5 minutes… You are way misinformed. There is a slew of False rape claims, in fact most claims of rape that made national headlines have been proved false claims. And most statistics show that not only are false rape claims against men an incredibly high amount, they are being taken overly serious prosecuted by violating the rights of the boys that are having their lifed ruined by this which is then followed by harassment and murders that come after they have been shown to be innocent. And just to add the cherry on top there are countless cases of women raping students, imprisoned children, etc and not only getting off free, their victims being harassed, bullied, their parents siding with their rapist, and if their is child produced they are forced to pay child support in several cases. If you are going to talk about how the justice system is failing people talk about the people having their rights violated and being victimized, not about how somehow a justice system that has removed the rights of the accused and subjected them to all sorts of barbaric bullshit isn’t finding these males guilty when they literally have to prove their innocent, rather than the accuser having to prove their guilt.
Oh also, if they wanted this to be accurate, but god forbid we have males be the victim v.v Tarmin would be Jev’s mother, authority female figure, and would have done it to him when he was younger. Again, it’s shown that whenever rape is studied every male rapist has been raped/sexually assaulted in their past where as with women there is no such correlation. And actually thinking about men and how they both statistically and, you know, observing reality, Tarmin is either just as much a criminal as Jev or he is poorly written, because the normal man would in most cases very quickly start giving warning and posturing to stop such behavior, not excuse it as “but she’s beautiful.” In fact, that being the case, the quicker and more extreme way that would be squelched.
——–
So yeah would have to say in general this episode doesn’t hold up, because the story and characters doesn’t hold up, A number of the messages that can be gotten out of it are pretty bad or stuck in a sexist feminist regressive view that is known to be factually wrong. Since that is what this episode is banking on it doesn’t work, unless you believe the myths that it panders too.
——–
On slightly different note, I totally forgot about this episode when listing off the occurences of PTSD that is suffered by the various crews.
I really recommend for you to volunteer in places that assist rape victims. You’ll learn a lot.
I would not learn a lot ^.^ I recommend you and everyone else do research and think about what is said about rape.
I’m not gonna respond to you anymore.
I generally had the thought that rape was penetrative. But I really think any false rape accusations would need to have equally serious punishment for the false accuser. I think of this episode as a token “serious” episode many sitcoms like to make. Like “Different Strokes” molestation, and “Family Ties” suicide show. Just seems like TNG could have just done straight rape attempt sexual assault and not get sci fi spacey (like they do w napkins and glasses, lol) and treated it seriously and done a fine job. Maybe a junior crewman and a slightly higher ranking team leader or a visit to a Mos Eisley type rough planet, where the rape or even attempted rape happened. Seems totally do-able, trying to think if DS9 ever tackled this…cant think of any…hmmmm
Most rapes happen in ‘safe’ environments by a person who the victim trusts. Putting it in a Mos Eisley setting would be realistic for only a small percent of sex crimes.
Let’s be honest here, rapists are usually daddy, granddaddy, brother, cousin, uncle, family’s best friend, closest neighbor, favorite coach, etc. That’s why most of them don’t get reported. Because there’s tremendous pressure upon the victim from the rest of the family to keep silent. These are things only shared between victims and hardly ever reach the police or anyone else.
“Let’s be honest here, rapists are usually daddy, granddaddy, brother, cousin, uncle, family’s best friend, closest neighbor, favorite coach, etc.”
What you said is bigotry and it disgusts me.
This is the lie the propagates and allows more rape than anything, other than in prisons.
While the majority of non-prison related rapes are done by someone close to you, the bigotry that says it’s usually male is ghastly and allows more children, soldiers, and people in general to be raped than any other and then worse it allows these criminals to further victimize people with teachers who are slapped on the wrist at best, and in general women saying “if you tell anyone I’ll say you did it to me” or a populous that says you’re horny all the time (or some variation on the theme) so it’s not rape.
Wow. This is the episode that proves that Trek uses ALL the Crayolas. I guess it’s important — actually, I know it is — but, but, but…
OK, I can’t really go on my usual https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/26ee2b197a28b5b98f18a99512077085b6a139f239186aff8f5e8e7d6e830a2b.jpg snarkfest, but here’s what I got: So, for punishment, Jev is thrown into a den of the moth monsters that have plagued the Ullian fashion district for generations.
Good podcast. Let’s all have a fun one next time.
Hang in there, Masterpiece Society is a bundle of laughs!
Actually, I wish to walk this statement back. Just rewatched Masterpiece Society, much better than I remembered, and very timely for a 2016 rewatch. In fact, let me put this on the table, hopefully in time for the Masterpiece Society podcast: as our own modern conversation on governance seems to continue hardening its own arteries to the point that there seem to be narrowly defined schools of thought, are we in the 21st century perhaps justifying the single-trait monocultures with which Trek populates the 23rd and 24th centuries?
I am really enjoying going back and reviewing these episodes I first saw as a 19 year old. I have recently been thinking about the homeless problem in San Diego and the USA in general…DS9 “Past Tense” w the homeless, poor, unemployed in Sanctuary Cities…whoa, wow, amazingly prescient. painfully….
Agreed. MS is a good Trek. Looking forward to it.
First time commenting on a missionlog episode, been listening since the beginning. What I find troubling is the lack of jurisdiction enforced by starfleet. In our today world, if you visit a foreign naval vessel in port (at a fleet week exhibit for example) it is made clear that once you step on that vessel you are subject to both our laws AND the laws of the vessel’s host country. Maybe I have that wrong. The crime of rape was committed on the enterprise. Picard is the law on the enterprise. Why is the rapist sent on his way? Why not arrested and held for trial? Or transported to a federation facility for trial? Not to mention the other worlds where crimes were committed previously – and the victims who might not know and would be served by both awareness and then justice. In our today world, commit a crime in France and you end up in a French court. If Picard sent them on their way with a lecture and the hope that justice will be served down the road and he could have (and should have) taken the rapist into custody, then that’s awful all the way around and a major failing on Picard’s part no matter the larger political consequences. In the end the victims never face their attacker in court or were given the chance to see justice served. The beat down by Troi was not enough and likely left scars on her as well, fighting is traumatic too. This episode in my opinion fails in that regard. The victims have no voice and come 2nd.
Federation ships tend to hold themselves to be Neutral and try to abide by the laws of the species that they interact with when they can…as well as pass responsibility back to the other nation if possible…
Also, even though they make this whole speach, it simply isn’t a law in the Federation, even though it should be considering that later canon shows that there was comparable crimes previous and one should assume that with betazoids and vulcans running around there would be some such laws.
Yeah, I would think mental intrusion laws would be charted territory w Vulcans and Betazoids in Starfleet.
yes, a Status Of Forces Agreement (SOFA) is usually in effect. The vastness of Trek travel, makes it a bit tricky considering dress codes, rules for stepping on the grass (“Justice”) lol and various rules about falling in love, lol- but Yeah, I would think the crime happening on the Enterprise should be key. But it seems to vary from time to time. In orbit of a planet…is the Enterprise considered an embassy, where some could claim asylum?
ugh, such limitations w the 44 minute format and lack of connectivity w story arcs…
In one of the multitude of “official” Star Trek trivia books, one of the writers claimed Keiko’s grandmother’s name was “Obachan” — which, in fact, is the Japanese word for grandmother and not a proper name.
It’s actually Oba-chan which is the dimunitive form which would translate to something like Cute Little Grandmother and it’s somewhat insulting due to relative social positions. More appropriately she’d be called Oba-san, Oba-Sensei, Oba-Sama, etc.
This actually should’ve come in between New Ground and Hero Worship, because then instead of two straight episodes about kids, we would’ve had two straight episodes about terrible parenting. Jev may have daddy issues because of his constant competition with his father, but Tarmin is not blameless here. Even if it’s in subtle ways like “Hey, Beverly, how about that first kiss, huh, huh?”, Tarmin is modeling – and likely has been modeling for a long time – a lack of respect for other people’s boundaries for his son. Jev may have other issues that amplifies that low-key lack of respect into the something far more dangerous that we see here, but that combination might not have had the same results had Tarmin spent more time modeling more appropriate behavior as Jev was growing up.
I firmly believe that, as a parent, you are responsible for demonstrating for your children the kind of people you want them to be. I can’t say that I’ve gotten it 100% right myself, but I do try to be conscious of what I am doing and saying, because all my sons see is that I’m supposedly an adult (that’s debatable some days!) and have it together (that’s really debatable), and this is what an adult who has it together is supposed to be like. Fathers of boys, especially, owe it to their kids to know that there’s a time to put away, if not childish things, then childish attitudes – frat boy behavior, let’s say. If you’re in that position, raising boys to be men…you owe it to them, and to everyone who will be around them as they grow older, to be the better person you want them to be. I know you guys just love the phrase “be the change you want to see in the world”, but there comes a point, especially when you are literally shaping the next generation, that you have to do exactly that.
I’m not saying that Tarmin has, at any point, done what Jev is seen to be doing here, but his casual lack of respect for other people’s psychic personal space (for lack of a better term) has played a part in what Jev has become.
As for the “killed because he wanted to vs. killed because he had to” theory, I suppose there may be something to that, and obviously Jev sticks to the M.O. that he does because it works and is undetectable (until now), but I’m not sure where trying to delineate his motivation in each assault gets us, because none of it is any less reprehensible than the others. There’s another possible element to his M.O. that you may have missed in your analysis – he’s like an addict. The assault on Troi is his “big hit”; Riker and Crusher are smaller hits that help him coast along, like snacks between meals. Horrible analogy, but it’s all pretty horrible to think about.
If we are terrible people around our kids, our kids become seriously damaged people who also have the potential to be terrible. Even behavior that may seem innocuous rather than terrible – such as constant one-upsmanship that robs a child of any feeling of accomplishment and proficiency and ultimately adequacy – can have an effect over time.
Best, really, to not be terrible.
Absolutely…
There’s also the aspect that Jev isn’t doing what he is doing for power or lust or whatever, but to work his issues out. He obviously knows that what he did was wrong and doesn’t like that behavior when he sees it even a little in others so he might just be trying to work something out and this is his only outlet.
And given that there is, as far as we know, no people experienced with handling these things on their world it might be best for everyone to introduce them to the Vulcans (almost made a terrible typo on that name lol) and have them teach him how to control his tendencies.
Some things can be forgiven if someone is “working their issues out”, but the line has to be drawn when it is causing harm to others. At that point, issues aren’t being worked out, they’re simply being externalized in a harmful way. You know, that old chestnut about the needs of the many, etc.
I don’t blame Tarmin for what Jev did, but I do blame Tarmin for what he did to Jev. I’m not excusing Jev’s action, but pointing out that dismissing it as just some power thing or lust thing is imo wrong.
Still not excusable, no matter what his upbringing might have been.
Where did you get that Jev didn’t do it for lust and power? His last assault on Troi clearly shows lust and the need to exercise power over her.
I don’t think Jev thinks of what he’s doing as wrong from a moral sense. However, he knows that his behavior is not allowed – there’s a difference.
He’s a classic profile of a rapist. Someone who seems nice, that you know and trust, and when you least on your guard he attacks you.
So your stereotypical housewife is the classic profile of a rapist. Good to know.
But I didn’t say it wasn’t for lust or power, but that it’s possible that it wasn’t. There are plenty of issues that can appear to be driven by one thing, but really driven by another.
You have some serious problems with reading comprehension.
Yes Tarmin is not a great Dad to his grown up son, but to blame Tarmin is going to far.
Their relationship reminds me a lot of Riker and his Dad.
Actually, Spock and Sarek may be a better analogy – wasn’t there a line in TOS about Spock coming in second in a Vulcan lute competition, while Sarek came in first? Yep, no daddy issues there. But Spock’s Vulcan discipline might have been, as Durakken suggests below, a saving grace. Lots of dads compete, either consciously or otherwise, with their sons; that alone isn’t bad and doesn’t always have negative consequences. Jev has more going on than just daddy issues, but in his case, the daddy issues don’t help.
But the fact that Jev tried to frame his father for it seems to be a clear signpost that at least some of Jev’s mental state *is* about daddy issues, which is what led me to me original post. Now, I’m not blaming Tarmin 100% for the situation – Jev is an adult, and clearly has a lot more going on than just daddy issues. Still, for those of us who aren’t Ullians (pretty much everyone in the room, right?), I stick by the idea that modeling appropriate behavior is a big part of parenting.
What’s weird about this is that we don’t know what the cultural norms are among Jev and Tarmin’s people (only that they, too, see these intrusions as a very personal assault), or what the expectations of parenting are there, so we can only judge them in human terms. But if the writers don’t *give* us any of that information, it seems fair to say that they don’t feel like it’s important enough to consider. Still, it’s interesting to see the mention that not all of the Ullians can do this, so they’re not a typical Star Trek monoculture (“Klingons like fighting!” “Romulans are devious!” “Ferengi are out-of-control capitalists!” “Man…those Deltans!”). I can’t tell if the Ullians are insufficiently developed or if it really doesn’t matter.
Funny thing: John mentions in trivia that David Sage showed up a year or so later in the pilot movie for Babylon 5. And what was his character’s downfall in that movie? Trying to run a shady business deal past the station’s resident telepath…
I don’t blame Tarmin for what Jev did, but I do blame Tarmin for what he did to Jev. I’m not excusing Jev’s action, but pointing out that dismissing it as just some power thing or lust thing is imo wrong.
Spock and Sarek, another good example.
Billions around the world have daddy issues. Some of them can still tell right from wrong and take responsibility for their actions. Others who are abusive have a narcissistic view on things and blame everyone but themselves, including their father, for their own actions. Jev is clearly the latter. You know the type, “It’s the faulty mike… It’s because of the earpiece… ” Yeah.
I would have liked the female Ullian to have discovered the false planted memory that Dad was bad. Just would have been more intriguing to let her play a bigger role.
Thinking of “How I Met Your Mother” and how Barney changed after having a daughter…lol.
Pre listen thoughts:
– Poor Deanna sure gets mind raped and assaulted a lot. I don’t recall watching this one as a kid, but this one would be a lot for a younger audience. It is pretty explicit for 90’s Network TV.
– Double fake out going on. You think it is Jev, then his father, nope. Back to Jev. The idea that he would frame his father for what he did just adds the layer of ickiness to him.
I was bothered by the scene where Picard seemed to dismiss the idea of pressing charges. I couldn’t help but think that should be a decision made by the victims
The Ullians might have been useful during “The Mind’s Eye”, when Deanna was trying to “recover” memories from Geordi at the end of that episode.
I would think psychic healers from Betazed and Vulcan would be helpful for the Federation
Further Thoughts
– That Toupee, eek. Good call on having Picard bald.
– The doctor’s on the other planets seem a bit inept. You would think that some one would have noticed the peculiar comma symptoms.
– It is a good thing that medical history is so easily shared and they don’t have patient confidentiality.
– Good to hear that hand writing is still alive in the future.
– The Riker talking to DeAnna in the comma is very touching.
– To Ken’s concern about Tarmin getting off easy I have the feeling that there are going to be some intense discussions when they get home. Plus Tarmin is probably just in a lot of shock.
– Of course the violence within us speech is supposed to be a message to us. Many post-apocalyptic stories show how normal folks act out when society norms are removed.
Another thought hit me overnight. For all of the up-front content warnings on this podcast (which are appreciated, as I do happen to be raising at least one little fellow Trekkie), Violations, by virtue of utilizing that old Trek chestnut of turning issues on their ears, really could’ve been a lot more explicit and disturbing. The distorted Riker/Troi flashback *IS* disturbing, with a capital “dis” and a capital “turbing”. Riker and Beverly’s flashbacks, a bit less so – more like standard Trek fare. But for the Riker/Troi scene, and the very clear mention of rape at the end of the episode, you could almost miss what this one’s about – it’s right on the edge of looking at its social issue TOO obliquely. It’s interesting, also, that when Troi defends herself from Jev at the end of the episode, her self-defense moves are, unapologetically and unmodified, standard anti-sexual-assault defense moves: she gives him a knee in the family jewels (and it’s lucky for her that Ullians apparently have something in that spot with enough nerve endings to hurt); that was some slightly more subtle visual telegraphing as to the subject matter.
The reason I bring this up: as I was thinking on it late last night, I distinctly remember that there was an episode of Hunter (the Fred Dryer cop series) in which the female lead character on that show was raped, and it was far, far more explicit, on a hiding to nothing really. The remainder of that episode was naturally about catching the bad guy and roughing him up before handing him over to the authorities. Standard cop show fare for the topic.
So at the risk of adding one more hot button to the fire (and it looks like we’ve had a few): is it better to “oblique-ify” this issue behind metaphor, or would it have been better to hit the issue on the nose with minimal metaphor and subtlety, a la Last Battlefield? Because there are times when Trek tries *so* hard to obscure what it’s talking about (I’m glaring accusingly at you, The Outcast) that it winds up saying almost nothing.
I don’t disagree with you, Earl. We loved “…Last Battlefield” partly beacause it was so on-the-nose. I was kind of thinking about that when I sat down to write my notes about this episode, and that’s why I was pleased when they actually say the word “rape” at the end. Sometimes Trek does veer a little far from the issues it wants to tackle. Sometimes they are right on.
I think Zev should have interjected himself in sexually fond memories only. The Riker engine room, Crusher morgue scene just seemed bizarre.
The main thing I got out of this one is how we might redefine the meaning of rape one day. That day is today: Governor Brown signs bills including one redefining the legal definition of rape.
http://www.union-bulletin.com/news/national/gov-jerry-brown-signs-sex-crime-bill-tied-to-stanford/article_4a757ab0-8755-11e6-8dc4-6379dbf1ed76.html
Did we ask what the hell was this metal thing? A bandage healing gadget?!?!
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/416046a5b3797e3513659b1547e36c1630f89dc149c3d5e8470985b37c4652df.jpg
Some.patients need a cortical stimulator, and others need a follicle stimulator.
I am so curious about the deleted posts here! lol- well it is a pretty hot topic. I think the psychic rape concept was just to treat the subject w kid gloves but say they at least tried a ‘heavy” subject. Ultimately, a bit silly imo. I have always felt that no matter a man’s education, wealth or religiousness- in the blink of an eye, under the perfect storm, he will resort to violence or sex…go back to the lowest cave man common denominator. Pretty brutal, but something I feel is true for many men. I think they should have had a few no name, low level female crewmen turn up knocked out, maybe 2, then Troi and Crusher get wise and Crusher get psych blasted then Troi and Zev battle it out….oh well. Yeah, Troi’s empathic ability just seems damn near useless more often than not. A full 100% Betazoid should be a highly prized asset for Starfleet ships imo. Dang, a few wouldn’t hurt. Bridge battle encounters, trade negotiations…peace treaties…sigh, they should at least say Betazoid prefer NOT to join Starfleet for these reasons…at least most…cause they don’t wanna get pimped/muled out for dirty work.
Was surprised to see deleted comments – we don’t delete anything unless it is blatantly commercial (spam) or is a personal attack. Everyone is free to edit/delete their own comments though.
There was a post that I deleted, because it was replied to the wrong person and reposted it to where it was supposed to be…
In various forums I’ve replied accidentally to the wrong person like 3 or 4 times this week. Dunno why. It’s a thing that I almost never do.
Gotcha. Well, regarding this episode, I think it would have been more effective if Jev inserted (no pun intended…well….) himself into positive happy sex thoughts or memories of unsuspecting women. It would be a bit suspicious though, since the whole crew knows he is a telepath…but- if the seed of attraction is artificially implanted, and he then w an unfair advantage either has sex or psychic sex and gets his thrill, but leaves on physical damage, I think the episode could have been more compelling.
See the problem with that is then it would be taking the power of seduction away from women and giving it to men and calling that rape which would be a truly egalitarian stance rather than the nonsense we always get.
We have several occurances of it happening though in TOS and I think Ent where the Orions seduce the men of the Enterprise. We get a similar thing in the far more egalitarian universe of Star Gate as well with Hathor.
All occurances end pretty much with the women coming off as not that bad overall while the men are made out as being terrible in some way. If that were played out inverting the genders there would be lots of people fired up and people losing their jobs, because how dare they portray men and women like that v.v
We know the reason that Jev attacks Troi is because Troi is victimgirl of the series, but analyzing it outside of that leads one to conclude that the reason Jev went after Troi was because she is strong enough to be a telepath and such but weak enough that she can’t really do anything and as such is the optimal target for someone who has an inferiority complex. People like that always attack someone who they perceive have power but know in the back of their minds that they aren’t really that strong because then they can’t fail and lets them reinforce their ego which is weak, which leads into what responsbility do Tarmin and Jev’s mother play? Both are assuredly bad parents by our standards. But, anyways, the show ends up giving the message of victims are powerful and revenge is good which are awful messages. I’d rather have seen them go down the path you brought up because then they could have Troi play investigator and confront Tarmin about his bad parenting in Jev, confront Jev about what he’s doing, showing that she is capable, competent, smart, and strong, rather than what we’re given.
ahhhh, as I posted in FB, I jumped to conclusions. I was thinking a hot button issue like psychic space rape was bound to get some arguments. Glad I was wrong…I have deleted a few of my comments when messing up on pics I post.
Well, maybe Troi didn’t feel Jev was rapey because she feels everyone is rapey, because that’s what feminists and mulsims would argue ideologically. She’s always under the male gaze so one more lustful and intrusive person doesn’t make a difference.
Give that’s the case, this episode holds up even less, as a rape episode, because if you take what we know about Troi’a power’s to heart then the forced visions of her being assaulted and raped in some way should be completely the norm for her and the only thing different about Jev is that it happened while she was sleeping (which should happen anyways given how dreams and nightmares work) and caused a coma.
Also the retaliatory comments and things shown where Troi get’s revenge is not Trek. It’s human and understandable to want to get revenge, but civilized attacking and brutalizing people beyond establishing subduing or defending yourself is how barbarians act, not how civilized people act…
Sidenote: the names Jev, not Zev… Zev is hot chick from Lexx. Zev and Troi battling does sound appealing.
They need to catch the vicious puma that shredded that dude’s jacket and chewed his ears off.
Just as bad science fiction can have great themes, so bad fiction can have real tragedies. Showing rape, murder, torture, oppression, in and of itself is not good fiction, no matter how important for us to recognize these things. There is a real difference between drama and melodrama. Between soap opera and good fiction.
For me this show is a failure for that reason. Just like all the cop shows, soap operas and movies of the week. It is barely science fiction – or doesn’t have to be, barely Star Trek, barely good literature. One might think a Star Trek episode would teach us something, show it’s effects on society, show how this illness begins or can be treated. Or something. Or even how it’s effects character, how people can do nothing about it, how it is justified or even tolerated. Or, how sexism in general is tolerated.