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Episode
165
The Most Toys
A seemingly routine mission ends with the loss of Lt. Commander Data. Only (spoiler alert) he is not dead. He has been added to a collection of priceless items by an amoral collector. Will the crew of the Enterprise realize he is alive? If they do, will they be able to get him back? And how will Data handle kidnapping and captivity? Find out when we put The Most Toys into the Mission Log.
1. The shuttle pod door looks so rickety! Not named after a scientist?!?
2. Has EVERYONE forgotten about Lore? Really when they beamed him off in “Datalore” there was NO follow up ! Was he dead, frozen, unable to find… Geez. There was another android!
3. Andorians! Geez. Just mentioned. Not shown 🙁
4 Saul Rubinek. Awesome performance! I love his “They had FOUR DAYS!!! why?!?! …. Ok”. Lol
5. Data should have at least threatened to destroy collection as bargaining chip for freedom.
6. Data’s passive resistance. Loved it. Shoulda faked damage after 1-2 more impacts w Fajo’s body shield!
7. Disruptor lockbox only had a PIN? No fingerprint DNA tech? Lol.
I think this episode is in my top 10. Now I gotta make a list!!
8. I like how ship moves on after Data’s “death”. Mission goes on. So does life. Now onto the podcast!
Another thumbs up for Saul Rubinek..LOVED his performance in this episode.
“It took great EFFORT! EFFORT!” LOL
Everyone forgets Lore in more ways than one.
It took much effort — Effort — To bring you here.
He doesn’t “seem” particularly sentient right now.
funny, it seems like Fajo, thinks Data is dense…hahaha
What’s with this ep and gross nostrils??
http://tng.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/s3/3×22/themosttoys274.jpg
Well at least she wasn’t picking hers.
Read Erin Pizzey’s books and watch some of the stuff that she has done. She’s the woman who started the abuse shelters in the UK… then was ran out by feminists when she pointed out that all the data points to reciprical domestic violence… and that’s the answer to “why don’t they leave”. It’s because more often than not, both parties are terrible screwed up people abusing each other as a way to self medicate their mental problems that resulted from being brought up in homes with the exact same problem… Not knowing that makes Lolita more sympathetic, but knowing that, the reality is that she is more than likely manipulating the situation to her own terrible ends and we’re just not seeing it.
As far as messages… I think the obvious is something like, “Don’t make your identity rely on transient material things” or “don’t get wrapped up in something to the extent that you’re willing to do immoral things” (there are so many fan boys that need to get that message) or maybe “don’t push people to their limits because you don’t know what they’re capable of”, which is shown several times through out the episode with Kivas pushing Lolita and her betraying him. Lolita betraying Kivas and him shooting her. Kivas pushing Data and Data shooting him.
oooh, that had to be a controversial viewpoint. Ouch. I worked ER x 10 years and would agree w some of the reciprocal aspects for some. Sad.
It’s not a controversial viewpoint. It is a fact that been found time and time again when you look at the data and don’t fudge it and redefine things based on sex, and or if you take into account laws that do it, for example the primary aggressor laws which dictate that a person with all the general traits of men must be considered the primary aggressor… or the fact that there laws the specifically say you can’t have more than x percentage of men that arrested in arrested women… That is to say that if there have been 10 women arrested then a police department can be fined if they have say 1 man arrested or less than some number if we say 10% then it is 100 men.
The data shows that generally it’s 50/50 leaning more towards women being the initiators and far more aggressive than men, but women being more likely in hospital which isn’t really surprising considering women are more likely to make more of an issue at lesser things, and men tend to end up dead or in jail, not in hospitals, even when they are clearly injured and bleeding.
This actually more shown now adays because what we find is that of the 3 types of relationship woman|woman relationships tend to be more violent and man|man tend to be less, which is caused generally because women will hit men as if it were nothing and people will consider it as nothing and women will act the same way in a relationship towards a woman as they would with a man so you have 2 people who are more or less used to not facing consequences or less consequences and are likely to do all this badgering and take it to heart and all that playing off each other while on the other side you have 2 people who are more likely to not engage in all the stuff that leads to violence in the first place and let things go.
So not controversial in terms of reality and the facts that are know. It is controversial to the public and academia because the public is being lied to with propaganda and academia and places that are supposed to help are promoting these horrible messages and conditions that make the cycle of violence to continue, especially since statistics also show that women are likely to take their emotions out on the children, especially male children, when they have these proclivities. The reason they do this is for the money and power and also to promote their nonsensical view of the world.
So… yeah I don’t doubt your experience, but there is a reason why you’d more likely have women come in than men and such things.
Anyways… not trying to rail against feminism and those institutions here because not the place, but it’s hard not to when you explain why these vile things are the case… and everyone should take a look at Erin Pizzey and her work.
wow, pretty detailed, but a bit over my head. Makes me think Trek should have touched more on this subject. Domestic violence, assault. I recall Troi and a psychic assault, but I’ve said too much! lol- also, “The Child” S2 E1 was rumored to have touched on rape/assault, but it was dropped. Such interesting viewpoints!
Yeah, The child clearly was. The problem with Star Trek is that for all its talk of egalitarianism and non-bigotry and other such thing, you can see it all over the show, just it’s the acceptable kind to modern eyes so it gets ignored. For example, I’ve never once heard anyone raise an issue with the Lwaxana Troi bathing in the nude with Alexander. That would be classed some sort of sex crime if the sexes were reversed, but it’s perfectly fine showing it on tv to impressionable male youths… I generally find that the episodes dealing with these issues to be fairly bad in their representations and don’t really explore the issue but rather throw their belief at you and make the stance if you disagree you’re wrong.
Anyways… If you have time and an interest, on Youtube look for the channel “GirlWritesWhat” she explains and cites a lot of things and I recommend her for listening, I’ve heard that a couple college professors show her videos in classes, but she takes a subject that you might find hard to understand and deos a great job explaining. If you have a lot of time on your hands it should only take around 3 days of constant view to get through all her stuff, which isn’t much, but its worth it to listen to it.
So John,
I’ve seen your name signed on the wall on the back of a certain set in south Georgia.
Anything you’d like to share with the class? Hmmm?
Does Data have a special responsibility here? Seems to me that Data shouldn’t be held (or hold himself) to a higher standard than the average (or perhaps somewhat above-average) Star Fleet officer. So, the question of Data’s particular morality is a bit moot, I think.
As an android, Data’s situational ethics could be unique, I suppose. He is not abliged to be motivated by human emotions or feel the negative effects of captivity. But I don’t think his actions were ever in conflict with Star Fleet ethics. Why he would try to obfuscate his actions to Riker at the end of the episode is a bit of a mystery to me.
Data has no responsibility to these criminals. I think this was about justification for deadly force. Totally justified. I would have been fine if he had gone Terminator on the whole crew to be honest….
While not good folks, they are not “eliminate at all costs” folks.
Call the cops, put them in jail, sure. Kill them outright, no.
Data Would be taking a risk on getting stunned again…
There is the stun thing, but I am sure Data could have come up with something besides just right out shooting him.
Yes, but armed w a weapon that only has a kill setting and , I never noticed if Kivas was wearing the shield thing or not….I think Data was in the right… I agree, Data would need to be more threatened over a prolonged time, roughed up, beaten down, but w some binary logic, I think he just clicked and said..NOPE!- lol
Data was dealing with a person who he knows has already killed and mamed his close associates and would happily do it again. The security system was locked-down (I presume). Data could not touch Fajo except by using the disruptor on him (again, my presumption) and he had no hope of rescue (he didn’t know Fajo would make it kinda easy for the Enterprise to find him). So Data was in a stand-off where his only choices were to use the disruptor on Fajo or give it up — and risk exposing other people’s lives to the vicissitudes of Fajo’s nature. I think Star Fleet would’ve been okay with his choice.
lying was the most important Data developmental milestone in this episode
Saul Rubinek “Kivas Fajo”
Jane Daly “Varria”
Nehemiah Persoff “Palor Toff”
This episode to me was all about the justification of deadly force. Human trafficking currently applies, the domestic violence aspect yes and hmmm, well, I kinda got the impression Varria was a professional criminal and this was her crew. But of course, sad if Fajo hurts her. How far would you go to protect yourself and family? I think you better be ready to go all the way, or be ready to get locked up in a weirdos basement, or victim of home invasion, robbery etc… Of course if you can just give up your wallet and be sure you will not be harmed, do that, but….there are bad people in this world. Wolves who prey on sheep and Data had to learn the hard way, he would rather be a sheep dog, than a sheep. I think of ‘Walking Dead” justification for violence sometimes when you can’t trust others around your crew when you sleep. If you can’t turn your back on someone..hmmm someone has to go. The most disturbing part of the episode in my opinion is Data LYING!! He obviously lied to Riker. Why? SHAME! so I agree w you guys that Data has emotions. At least the rudimentary subroutines in his programing to allow for emotion like responses which is good enough in my book, considering the absence of empathy among so many “humans” in certain situations. I would have loved to see Data flip a switch and go Jason Bourne/Terminator on some fools. You could see glimpses of his survival instinct in “Home Soil” vs the robo laser and “Brothers”- dang, hard to stay in the right time zone! hahaha. Data’s dark side, internally, should have been explored more. Not really a dark side, but a no nonsense, “I gotta kill mode”
Fajo was not a good guy, but he was no pure evil that had to be eliminated at all costs.
Data had so many options besides shooting him. A knock on the head, just sitting on him, tying him up, etc, etc, etc. It would have been much more understandable if Fajo had been some evil mass murderer/aggressive general threatening thousands of lives.
Nehemiah Persoff “Palor Toff” still alive at 91!!
oh yeah…wasn’t Varria’s dive for the disruptor the worst ever?!!? lol
She made it like half way.
Maybe someone forgot to add the barbed wire in post.
Here’s another question regarding Data attempting to kill Fajo. When Data was debriefed about this, what did he tell people? Did he lie to Picard about what he did? You could argue about whether Data was justified in what he did, but would he lie about it?
NO
Thoughts.
1- The shuttle craft named “Pike.” Nice Easter Egg.
2- The girls makeup was very poor. Looked painted on.
3- Picard would have asked for a full investigation. I assume this would be standard in Star Fleet for any incident, especially for Picard.
4- Why would Worf be assigned to OPS?
5- Fajo was not a good guy, but he was no pure evil that had to be eliminated at all costs.
Data had so many options besides shooting him. A knock on the head, just sitting on him, tying him up, etc, etc, etc. It would have been much more understandable if Fajo had been some evil mass murderer/aggressive general threatening thousands of lives.
The case for Mace Windu trying to eliminate Palpatine in Revenge of the Sith was much more understandable.
6- Data would never have lied. Seriously, not gonna happen.
regarding 3, I think mission first, required them to get going…
6 I think Data can lie to preserve life if necessary. Seems very shortsighted to rob him of that basic ability
I think the options besides shooting him and others discounts the fact that Data could have been disabled by the other members of Fajo’s crew. I have to re-watch to see if Fajo was not wearing his shield protector, but really I would think the whole crew would be issued one if they hoped to keep Data locked up. Yeah, the Windu Palpatine debacle..ugh….he who hesitates is lost. If Data continued to play w kids gloves, he woulda been OWNED, literally, lol.
If the disruptor had no stun setting, and Fadjo was wearing the force field belt, then Data’s choices were extremely limited. If he isn’t willing to shoot Fadjo, then Fadjo can take him back into captivity again simply by stunning him with the force field belt. About the most Data could do would be destroy a lot of property. It’s a little weak, but given the time constraints of the show, Data doesn’t really have much of a choice, especially since Fadjo has no compunction against killing more people.
Also, every time the question of whether Data has feelings or not comes up, I’m reminded of the episode of Buffy where Buffy is arguing with Dawn about Angel and Spike. Buffy says Angel is different because he has a soul. Dawn says “Angel has a soul. Spike has a chip. Same diff.” (or words to that effect.) Whether Data’s motivations and responses come from electrons on a circuit board or chemicals crossing neurons and synapses, the result is the same. Ultimately, Picard’s argument from Measure of a Man still applies: “Prove to me that I am sentient.” The distinctions are not so cut and dried.
Though this episode has been a particular favorite of mine for years, and though I’d been so looking forward to it, I have very little to say about it. I guess it really does boil down to a great guest performance and typically good work by the regular set opposite him. The Enterprise stuff is not that interesting and strains credulity quite a bit, and even the A-plot feels a bit light. I think I can feel comfortable putting this in my second Top Ten instead of the first.
Had it not been for the casting coup, this might have been an “eh” episode. Good thing for that, then. Kivas Fajo might be the best one-off character in all TNG. Though “Unification” technically invalidates the one coming up next week (though Fajo’s far more fun). It woulda been great to see Fajo come back, though.
Was it mentioned in this week’s episode how much “Most Toys” feels like TOS? Lotsa colors, sparse sets. With its camp villain and poor, doomed Varria, it slightly reminds me of “Whom Gods Destroy”.
Good point about the TOS feel I wonder if, under a different circumstance, would it have been Spock who pulls the trigger on beam out (but then, could he tell a lie of omission about what happened)?
I’d believe it of Spock sooner than I’d believe it of Data, that’s for sure. I 100% could believe that Spock could rationalize his way to killing someone, but after that fact, he would 100% admit to it, and have his rationale ready to go Data’s…..
(There is no Data. There is no Data….)
…lie…..just….well…..we know it was ordained from the production office. We don’t have to acknowledge it as a literal truth we have to buy.
We all know how it SHOULD have ended: Data’s about to shoot Kivas Fajo, after his logic reasoned his way to believing the greater good lay in murder/self-defense rather than in pacifism and surrender. But he can’t actually kill him, because beam-out. Riker questions Data on what was happening with the discharging phaser. We zoom into Data’s face while we sense he’s struggling not to give the literal answer we know to be true, because he’s also considering the consequences, as well as his argument about the context of his acions. We awkwardly fade away, leaving all the big details untouched, while Jay Chatterley music plays. Then we cut to the Data/Fajo coda. And all is as it should be.
OK, so now that you guys have probably seen The Force Awakens… BIG SPOILER QUESTION: Is Supreme Leader Snoke really 50-foot Spock???
Well, that is a distinct possibility – or one of Keniclius’ other creations gone wrong.
No, Snoke, or Snape…lol, is normal size..he is just being holo projected as huge…hahaha. ahhh the “Infinite Vulcan” reference..I get it..never saw much of TAS.
Snoke could be huuuuuuge or Smeigel-sized. Gotta wait for the sequel. But OK… Why did Snoke not tranfer his flag to the Death Planet? Not safe enough? What did Snoke know and when did he know it?
I’m actually surprised you didn’t bring up that Data lies to Riker. If pulling the trigger was logical, why did Data try to hide that he did it?
I was a little confused about Data firing the disruptor. The very first thing that is said, when Data is beamed on the Enterprise, is that Kivas is ready to be taken into custody and charged with crimes x, y, and z. The fact that Data says this is what makes this a little confusing. So fact #1 is that Data knew he did not hit Kivas as he was being transported. So it was too late for the disrupter to exit the transporter, but NOT TOO LATE for Data to determine that he missed? So, did Data fire the disrupter knowing he would miss? Kinda like punching a wall instead? Or am I to believe that Data’s consciousness hangs around after the transporter begins to witness that he missed? There is not doubt that Data steps out of the transporter platform knowing that Kivas is alive and well. I cannot believe that Data was playing dumb when he said that Kivas needs to be grabbed and charged. Does this make any sense? Thanks for the podcasts!!! Really enjoy them!!
Well, that is an interesting conundrum, right? Data lifts his weapon after he rematerializes, understanding that it is dangerous and, at least in that split second of dematerialization, had discharged. Perhaps he did “see” long enough that Fajo was still alive. Likely he knew this as he realized he was back on the Enterprise. He wasn’t playing dumb, and he also isn’t going to “miss” when he fires a weapon. Something is going on in Data’s positron brain here – he’s also learning to cover his ass.
Thank you for the compliments on the show!
“he’s also learning to cover his ass.”
Yeah, I was really surprised about this. “Perhaps something happened in transport” was a borderline lie, or perhaps Data may be in denial about his choice. This was the most interesting part of the episode to me.
That’s really sad about David Rappaport. I Loved him in The Wizard tv series, and of course Time Bandits
Did Data lie to Riker at the end? No. Her said, “Something must have happened during transport.” And technically, something *did*: he fired the weapon.
And this isn’t the first time Data had been willing to kill in proverbial cold blood: after Armus killed Tasha, Data judged him to be a being without any redeeming qualities, and that “he should be destroyed” – and after another taunt from Oilboy, physically stepped forward like he was gonna punch Armus! Don’t tell me he has no emotions…
Great points in the podcast. I guess the ‘Nostril Guy’ is the real winner of this episode.
Hard to fault such a quiet episode with great character actors – but again the death of a woman is again used to justify some very questionable Starfleet behavior.
I agree the actual death caused by the Varon-T disruptor did not -look- much worst than most phaser deaths, but if it really was such a banned weapon would Data really use it? Couldn’t he just hit Fajo in the head with it?
What really makes it creepy is that Data lies about it to Riker about firing it. Couldn’t he just explain the dire circustances he found himself if he felt justified in using that weapon? There is something illict about Data’s murder attempt, something that allowed him to violate his core duties to peace and truth.
Also if you are transporting over people firing weapons, you probably want to turn them to face the back-wall, just it case…
And it is always sad to see more one-shot, disposable races. Bring back the ‘Poly-Nostrilians’ as Star Fleet crew!
The Poly-Nostrilians are terrible at parties though. They should stay where they are.