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Episode
266
Star Trek: First Contact
It’s the return of the Borg! You remember them! And the return of the Borg Queen! You remember her! No? Well, Picard does. He and the newly christened Enterprise 1701-E trace the technological terrors back to 21st century Earth, where the Borg are trying to stop first contact and assimilate humanity. So, we’ll need to find Zefram Cochran, get his ship running, and take him on… some sort of star trek. Can the crew save the day? Find out when we put Star Trek: First Contact in the Mission Log.
My favorite of the Next Gen movies. Love the new Enterprise E. They sure get her all messed up just after a year of service.
But did they really have to do time travel, again? Seems like they should not be at all surprised by this.
The Borg attacking and the thousands of lives lost can be (fairly or not) placed directly upon Picard’s choice to not send back Hugh with the virus to potentially destroy all the Borg.
I love the idea of a historical figure from the past not at all being what you thought they were.
I’m with Ken regarding the Borg Queen; they were far, far scarier without her. The Borg felt like a space cult with her instead of space techno-zombies. Yeah, John’s explanation works, but it just doesn’t feel as scary.
I’m not really down with the Ent-E design. Somehow it always felt too gloomy to me. It does seem to fit with action-hero Picard: the philosopher captain who smashes things.
I love the movie anyway. It was tons of fun when I saw it (three times) and it’s still fun now.
Agreed. I liked the Borg more when they were an unknown entity, all dark, dangerous. An relentless killing machine with no obvious flaws. Understand the need to ‘deal with the threat’ and let Star Fleet ‘have the win’ but I feel over time they were overused and like the Daleks in Dr Who became less of a threat with every appearance.
That being said I do enjoy this film greatly (best TNG movie no doubt) and the Borg Queen serves a great purpose with the Data storyline.
I like the Enterprise E, just wish we’d seen more of it.
Do not forget that this this came out in 1996. At this point the Borg were still a new villain in Trek. They had an appearance in Descent, but they were not really proper Borg. Then we had Hugh episode, which was not about the Borg as a threat really. That is it. Then this, with a great new look, akin to a Geigor monster from Aliens! This was the Borg at its scariest, so far ever, in my opinion.
Oh I totally agree. They are scary here. I just liked the mystery that surrounded them. Having a Queen took that away from them for me.
I think later Trek is far more guilty of exploiting the Borg than TNG ever was.
Dark Frontier, Voyager, is arguably the episode which really watered down the Borg as a particulary scary villain, but more a panto’ villain.
Enterprise E is epic for the movies. I like it!
Glad I’m not the only one who’s not a huge fan of the E. I get that they were trying to mash up elements of the 1701 refit from TMP with the 24th century style, but something was missing that diminished my appreciation for the E… oh yeah, a ten-minute flight around the ship with no dialogue. That’s what the refit 1701 had that the E didn’t. 🙂
Love this podcast. Haven’t finished listening yet. Re: needing to see something close and personal in order to realise we should behave better. We all do this. Some more than others. Nearly everyone eats ‘meat’ – that’s an animal killed for food. There are farm sanctuaries where they raise cows, sheep, goats, chickens, pigs, etc. in a humane way for the simple purpose of letting them live their lives happily. And when you treat them as beings and not as things you notice they have personalities they love, make friends, play… A personality which you then can’t easily kill and eat. It’s part of our ‘human’ limitation that we cannot identify with something we’re not familiar with. This is a limitation of our brain. We can lament this or we can just work harder to get people to interact on a personal level with different peoples, species, etc. The internet should have hailed a new era of personal interaction but the past several years it’s become very tribalistic once more where people just use the platform to hurl insults and those they consider ‘the other’: ethnicity, nationality, politically, gender (not just LGBT but also regular men and women) – we turned the internet into what we feel comfortable with – a place where we can hurl things at groups we dislike. Kinda like the UN when you think about it. When was the last time that organization actually prevented war or managed to broker peace? – the answer is Never.
We have to realise that only personal interactions can work. Big words in academia and politics are just there to remain on the page.
That discussion was my favorite part of the whole show, and a great specimen of why I listen to Mission Log to begin with.
The only things we should hurl should be heavy objects, while reading Klingon love poetry. Or at least I heard a guy talking about that once.
OK, here’s how I feel about the Borg over time: The start out terrifying and become ‘that bad guy who just can’t catch a break.’ Kudos if you remember ‘The Man From Atlantis’ (podcast coming after ‘Love Boat’ and ‘Super Train’ I hope) — in which Victor Buono’s Mr. Schubert starts off ransoming the world and ends up after many defeats making threats for a mere one million dollars. That’s the Borg! A villain who keeps losing just ain’t scary!
Did anyone else notice there are no children on the Ent-E? I guess the studio didn’t want to scare the kiddies in the audience. BTW, where’s Guinan… again?
Still haven’t seen ‘Space Jam.’ Saw ‘The English Patient’ on TV. Not sorry I invested in ‘First Contact’ twice.
How does the Enterprise-E navigate without its deflector dish?
I love Lily, but her role rightfully should have been split between Beverly and Troi.
I love the E, although it kicks off Trek’s obsession with escape pods. Jeez, they’re all over the hull! If you devote that much of your ship’s mass and resources to escaping, what’s left for living/working? Also, why would a pod be preferable to shuttles with warp drive and transporters? If you’re ship is screwed, odds are your escape pod is a goner too! Black hole, bloodthirsty Romulans — you’re NOT saving your butt in a dinky pod.
I am thinking Guinan was not part of Enterprise E. She only attended the wedding in Nemesis, and was likely there because she was invited.
Escape pods are very important. They didn’t have enough on the D obviously. And lets not forget Titanic in 1912..
And I hope John and Ken are going in with an open mind for the next two movies. They will make for a good listen either way though.
“Mister Schubeeeeeeerrrrrrrt!” (Sorry, big Man From Atlantis fan here, though I think any attempt to reboot it would have to bring in more superhero elements, until you wind up with M.A.N.T.I.S. From Atlantis.)
I always read the torpedo miss as Data deliberately messing up the targeting.
What kind of monster would just pick off escape pods? Oh…yeah…those guys in the latest Star Wars movie. Forget I asked.
A point of trivia that I have heard. During the premier, when Wolf and the defiant came on screen, Avery Brooks turned to Micheal Dorn and asked, “Did I give you permission to take the defiant? “.
Can anyone confirm that?
I don’t know if this is true or not. I hope it is as it’s hilarious!
I remember seeing something like that. I believe he said to bring it back in better condition.
Pretty convenient that Worf was there. 😉
Lt Junior is there! Around 25 minutes in on the science station. Love the show!
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/2265b1746b6d5deb88133f5a7c868aa9d4775b12a085e029f6ba2dfbf6e416db.jpg
C’mon, guys, they can’t pull out of spacedock without Lt. Jr. Jae. That’s like leaving without a spare tank of dilithium crystals in the trunk.
Thank goodness! What this means though is that, clearly, there was not enough visibility on Lt. Jr. Jae in this movie. A crime.
I did not recall a Lt. Jr. Jae?! You learn something everyday!
She has a tribute video on YouTube which chronicles all her appearances in the show and movies. I am amazed how many small cameos she had, and I seemed to miss it until now. Amazing, And she certainly will have every male chasing after her, like Riker clearly does!
Ok, Ok….I know you are referencing the short haired female in gold who looks like a younger version of “Ghostbusters” Gozer…but how did she get the name of Lt Jr. Jae and when did she become the focus of the podcast’s attention?
Wow. I just saw the youtube video…holy cow, I had no idea…that many times…
See? She’s sort of everywhere yet they never gave her the credit she was due.
I’m also fairly certain that at a convention she was at last year that I help run, she mentioned doing stunt work as the Borg Queen, so she was in the movie twice!
So this it. *The* TNG movie. Is it t really that good? II think there is enough character development to get you through through the tv like action.
The movie comes in three separated parts for some reason. So we jump from Cochran’s hero ‘quest’ to Data and his emotions to the action chase through the Enterprise. This is unfortunate, since the interesting stuff is given in exposition on the Enterprise, and Cochran get’s none of the action or visuals. The stuff with Data is always wasted, and used as a fake out simple plot twist at the end.
This is my second favourite Star Trek movie.
Thoughts on this movie:
1. I was listening to an episode of Startalk Radio and they were discussing how Charles Lindbergh made the flight from New York to Paris to win the Orteig Prize. Much like Zefram Cochrane, he did it for the money.
2. When Zefram Cochrane said the words “Star Trek”, I half-expected them to all turn and look at the camera.
3. When Picard said mid 21st century clothing, imagine if the computer outfitted him with some really skinny jeans and a man bun.
4. Despite this heavy defeat, the Borg survived and partnered with an unknown entity called to Overstrom to venture into the water dispenser business. https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/899de3d076c5ec6de41b5ca931ace75a7059677bcbd0a75d296fd535eeb08ad9.jpg
Diabolical… but, refreshing.
Is this before or after they conquered the tennis world?
I’m guessing after. Might be the retirement plan.
Hahahaha 😉
I would love to see a follow up video about Picard. So much happens with his character in this movie.
Today I dropped my eaglemoss miranda class and broke the nacelles off. All I could hear in my head was Lily saying “you broke your little ship(s)”
Great episode as always guys 🙂 I liked the discussion on the queen especially.
Aaaaack! I hope you can find a way to repair her. Had a similar incident involving the 22nd century S.S. Intrepid and my three-year-old. I have it on good authority, from some guy named Sisko, that the Borg have trashed a Miranda-class on screen before, so… it’s still canon.
“little?”
I enjoy this movie, though the more distance I get from it time-wise, the more I snap back to my original instinct (that Generations was my favorite). Same with TMP.
It’s not surprising that the cast universally lauded Frakes as a director. What IS surprising is that a day would come when Frakes *wouldn’t* be directing the next TNG film. (Corollary: it is not surprising that the later TNG film not directed by Frakes was widely seen as a disappointment.)
ST:FC, to me, is a morsel of great messaging surrounded by a great many zombie movie tropes that, as was pointed out, don’t necessarily work: Picard should know better than anybody that there’s a way to come back. (Hint: it involves the work of an android and a doctor who are *still serving aboard the new ship*.) The only justification I can find for his “mercy kill your comrades” attitude is that he’s trying to keep what is likely a very small cell of Borg from swelling their numbers rapidly by abducting members of the crew…which does have some validity as a tactical decision…but mainly we just want to adopt some zombie flick tropes here: the moment you’re touched/bitten/etc. by the zombies, you’re gone. Picard’s decision makes even less sense when *another* Federation ship with a completely different crew possessing completely different skills manages to bring a Borg back to individuality. Obviously it’s not impossible. (I will concede the point that we were almost a year away from meeting Seven of Nine on Voyager, so there was still just the one example.)
Maybe Lore’s secret was the same as the Borg Queen’s: they’re in charge because they know the wi-fi password for the collective. (Anyone who has kids know that this is how you stay on top of the heap and keep the conch.)
This is the most organic bring-Worf-back-to-the-Enterprise plot device that the TNG movies would have, post-Generations. His return in Insurrection is less graceful, and Nemesis…well…I just kinda want to forget that movie happened. This really was peak “Star Trek is all in one universe” – Worf aboard the Defiant from DS9, the holographic doctor element from Voyager, Cochrane from TOS, and the whole Vulcan first contact thread which would run through the entirety of Enterprise. I feel like I should rewatch to make sure there’s not a coincidental Discovery connection that I missed.
It was great to have solid confirmation that the entirety of Star Trek does, in fact, take place in the Michael Zaslow Cinematic Universe (MZCU). I wish the Zas was still with us; seems like he’d be a Mission Log Supplemental in and of himself.
Anyone else find it interesting that Picard’s character in this movie is modeled after a rape victim? I think this is the first time we have seen Picard as scary. He is frightening as he yells and rants at Lily. Great work from Patrick Stewart. I wish the show had more of Picard’s scary and broken side. He took the Borg’s assimilation a little too well.
I imagine that I will not be the first to post that, while I generally like this movie, the idea of the borg queen greatly diminishes my enjoyment of the movie and my fear/appreciation of the borg.
Literally- one too many ‘literallys’
A few things-
The Enterprise E looks like someone took a Voyager made of silly putty and pulled on both ends.
People who complain about the Borg queen ‘ruining’ anything are the perfect example of that Star Trek fan that proclaims an opinion like it was a statement of fact. Look it’s a hive mind we have always been told that, it makes sense there would be a queen/central figure of some kind even if that figure is just a psychic amalgamation with sentience.
There are all kinds of ways this make sense- in canon.
You can tour the Titan Missle Museum seen in the film. It’s a fascinating way to spend a few hours if you are in the Tuscon / Pima area. They also have a bit of First Contact info there as well
http://www.titanmissilemuseum.org
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/c48329e46f40ad626b6cb87ec94f482199f1e325881220d3dcd1df1d7cb75f8a.png
Been there, pretty fascinating
This from our friend Ken… https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/4874fc65a2a38814041848122b32d0f31109ce175b144b11b70b869003c5af78.jpg
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/282536a37a887063f5e4f887b3a4d876ecb87b63e1a4cd0e8356c89e0077360b.jpg
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/279d50c5baff0b57bf5d1230e67797564e834e6123cd92791a5af1e9849719f0.jpg
Well done Will and Scrappy… well done…
Re the loss of the deflector (presuming they don’t simply fabricate a new one, since they have a whole planet of resources beneath them and replicators on the ship, which seems like the prosaically boring and obvious thing to do.); they would still be able to travel at warp, would they not, since the ship is not actually moving then; just no impulse.
Has anyone else noticed that this film marks the beginning of the end of Troi’s accent? She talks more and more like Marina from here on out.
Any kids on board the E to get assimilated?
Enterprise E did not have children aboard her, which is hardly surprising after what happened with the Enterprise D.
I hope they learned their lesson not to
First Contact was by far my favorite Next Gen movie. Well-directed with an interesting story and a great cast. The VFX looked darn good on the big screen. We also learn that the Borg are not Sweedish!
Sounds Swedish though
Put Lilly in the cockpit as Zephram Cochrane!
i never thought that the Queen is the Head of State but more the other way round, that “she” is the anthropomorphic personification of the Borg Hive Mind. Like the Gods and fundamental Forces on the Discworld, are the Queens formed from the Borg mind itself.
the Thing that i never understand is: Why did they need to travel across 2 quadrants to earth and then through Time?
Of course, if they plan it better we wouldn’t have a story, but it would be nice if had it brought up why they could not travel first in the past and then to earth