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Episode
160
Sins of the Father
The Klingon/Starfleet cross-cultural exchange program continues with Commander Kurn of the Klingon Defense Force serving a short stint as first officer aboard the Enterprise. But everyone is in for a surprise: Kurn is secretly the brother of Worf. He has come to tell Worf that their father has been deemed a traitor by the Klingon Empire. Now the entire crew of the Enterprise has one mission – help Worf clear the name of the house of Mogh. Either that or Worf dies. Courtroom drama meets palace intrigue when we put Sins of the Father in the Mission Log.
Cowards! You knew where you had to go with this EP and you didn’t for risk of backlash. What good are the Morals, Messages, and Meanings of Star Trek if you can only talk about the au-currant non-contraversial ones? Don’t get me wrong, I feel for ya, because you most certainly would’ve gotten the hatemail, but come on. Show some spine boys. There are objective truths in this world and you shouldn’t be afraid to speak them.
I still love you though 🙂
Oh, DANG..Gotta listen asap, so I know whats going on!
I’ll say right here that I don’t know you so I may well be dead wrong, but judging by your user photo you might’ve been one of the people writing the hatemail if they had gone where Ken was going 🙂
I just listened to episode. I think it’s obviously about Bush. “If the President does it, it’s legal…” The Iraq War..sad. I could also see a Catholic church slam…but more specifically the Iraq War and how the US leadership claimed Weapons of Mass Destruction, but none were found, and several THOUSANDS of people died…for what? Yes. That’s my take. I am in the Army, but not robotically loyal to horrible policies. I think the HYPOCRISY of the Klingons, many American leaders w/ regard to WAR, Catholic priests on their sex abuse scandals…..I can’t figure out who is talking sometimes between Ken and John, but “I want these paper people to die”- I agree with him, because EVOLUTION IS PAINFUL and the Klingon Empire needed to evolve. Same with the false, House of Cards, Glass House type leadership of these elite cabals. But I understand why the Klingon High Council did what they did.. FEAR, FEAR FEAR…..the fear of shame of being embarrassed and ridiculed…that’s why so many priests kept their secrets…politicians made their deals in the dark…we all know the future of the Klingon Empire and overall….it did them some good, I think…to vent their frustrations on each other…better than on a nearby space station…doh
Well, sir, I am happy to be wrong about you, and even though I’m pretty much against our entire foreign policy these days, I thank you for your service.
no prob. I always think when commercials/rallies, say “These heroes are protecting American’s freedoms”,…they should say “interests” instead of freedoms….I think of “The Defector’s” reference to King Henry and how corpses would rise up and complain about an unjust war….I think a lot…lol. Hypocrisy of the elite..I like it when they get burned..Burn Klingon Empire…BURN. Civil War, bloody nose from the Federation…Dominion…its coming from you…lol
I’m against using the word “freedoms” here too. I hadn’t thought about replacing it with “interests.” Yes, that’s the right word here.
What I love about Trek is how it showed me political scenarios years ago, that I had no idea were already in the headlines and would be today….Cardassian dissident movement…resistance..terrorism…great stuff…seems like Syria and so many other bad situations…ugh
Also, I wouldn’t narrow the scope to JUST Bush, or any one party or policy at all. I think the US system has huge, glaring hypocrisies that need to be addressed. We claim to love freedom but curtail it at every turn for “security.” We love democracy while propping up dictators and funding coups. We also have a department of “Defense.” A secretary of “defense,” etc. I’d have loved to jump in when they were talking about the Klingon Defense Force and were wondering what that was about. It’s a smokescreen, that’s all. The list goes on for miles. We like to talk the talk. Walking the walk? Not so much.
yup..sad, we let these fool call the shots…ugh…
Serious question: To what are you referring?
You accuse them of not having the spine to talk about a controversial topic without mentioning what the topic actually was.
They were thinking about discussing how the themes of what happened at the end play out in our world today and then went, “NOPE.” Too bad. One of the awesome things about Star Trek is *exactly* this – putting uncomfortable/unpopular ideas into your head to get you thinking about them. Ken basically nailed it in summary and even swayed John, but ultimately they declined to talk about how that actually applies to us. It was all very intentionally vague – like they said, they don’t want hatemail, but I think a lot of people could benefit from deeper analysis of the message when it ISN’T “bonk bonk on the head,” as in this episode.
I guess I need it spelled out for me.
Are you talking about the military? Organized religion? Worf being bi-racial, having grown up with humans and being treated differently by his ethnic peers?
I think it was the military..the “if the President does it, it’s legal” comment. War, Iraq madness…see my post…below…
Yup – see deaddropsd’s post.
I think lordshmee wanted to give listeners a chance to make their own conclusions…
That and I was dead tired, heh.
haven’t listened to podcast yet, but I like to enumerate my observations since I have not really re-watched these since the mid 1990s.
1. Worf and Kurn have same foreheads..nice touch make up guys
2. Just disgusting at the Klingon hypocrisy regarding honor, kill Duras already! His mouth piece teeth didn’t seem to fit right.
3. Duras says “many turns” ugh, ok Kemo Sabe let’s get some firesticks! So “Indian” like…silly
4. Still no official mention of planet name…Qo’noS, was a nice touch from VI Undiscovered Country…gotta re-watch that and see how they spelled it in subtitles…
5. I imitated how Kurn sat/settled into his seat, a few times as a 18 year old kid sitting in theaters or such…lol
6. The rubber rubbing, cloth /leather sound effect of Klingon uniforms…nice touch…
7. Picard shoulda vaporized those fool assassins…who goes down to Qo’noS w/o a phaser?!?!!?
8. The babysitter named Kalest…lol, I do remember re-watching this at one point thinking it was the name of their emperor Kahless…
9. Qo’noS looks lush…what a bummer, we have never ever ever had time on the Klingon Homeworld…geez..not even DS9!?!?!? ARGGGH…
10. Was there a female on the High Council? interesting..how progressive, but seems contradictory to later details regarding Duras’ family….
How long has this bird been lying in the sun?!?
here’s the lesson in five words:
Political Expediency Is A Bitch.
I think you are equating an episode with a “bad moral” with a well written episode about people making bad decisions. the purpose of this episode was not to solve the Klingon’s problems in one episode,(because if they did, you probably would have chided them for Starfleet meddling) but to set up later stories that could explore the topic more fully
When the discommendation ceremony occurs, just imagine The Entry of the Gladiators is playing.
There are two main storylines regarding Worf and the Klingon Empire. 1) Worf’s gradual disillusionment with his fellow Klingons and 2) Worf’s insane level of influence in Klingon affairs for someone who doesn’t even live there.
Worf a) props up the government by accepting discommendation, b) installs Gowron as Chancellor by killing Duras, c) props up Gowron in the civil war with Kern’s help, d) installs a clone as figurehead, and e) installs Martok as Chancellor by killing Gowron.
Weirdly he goes from having no brother, to having a disguised brother, to having an openly acknowledged brother and then back to having a hidden brother. You have to wonder if Worf had just gone along with Kern’s plan to seize power during the civil war, if he might still have a brother who knows who he is.
Are you from the future?!!?! too much!! lol- This guy goes from being an orphan to having a brother, baby mama, baby, then his adoptive parents show up..then foster brother…lol….
There was one thing that always bugged me about this episode. At the end Worf is willing to be executed to “save the Imperial Empire” if his brother is allowed to live. Duras rejects it because Kurn being alive would seek vengeance. So instead,the Klingon Council members do the hokey-pokey and turn themselves around, and BOTH Worf and Kurn are allowed to live. Did Duras think that if they both were allowed to live, they would forget about vengeance?!?!?!
He’s banking on Worf believing in discommendation to the point that he won’t allow any shenanigans. He’s out of the game – that’s what it means.
I wish Worf and Kurn had just sliced up Duras when they had the chance…put his head on a pike…..lol…
Hypocrisy doesn’t play by the rules..neither does panic and shame…these elites will do anything to keep their hold on power…
I love this ep. I really feel it’s the one where Worf comes into NextGen as more than ‘The tough Klingon Dude who gets beaten up to show just how tough the baddie of the week is’. And yeah, the moral here kinda sucks… but, how says Star Trek always has to end on a positive note?
Oh, and I also loved how Captain Picard is shown to be just as much as a badass as Kirk, he just hides it better.
“You may test that assumption at your convenience” is the classiest “Come at me, bro!” I’ve ever heard.
re-watching this stuff, I wish they had a grittier fight element to TNG. A bit forced/fake..but oh well. “The Hunted” “Code of Honor” “Icarus Factor” to name a few…could have been much better w a bit more realistic fight scenes….
What are “Clodes”?
Loved this episode and podcast. But I’m going to play devil’s advocate on behalf of Klingon honor. One thing Ken glossed over in his analysis was the utter destruction and loss of life that would result in a Klingon civil war. A civil war in a culture that follows a strict honor code of vengeance, best served cold? There’s no way that ends in less than 7 generations.
The poor gaghmongers (because they don’t have fish) and merchants and farmers who were living comfortable lives based on a comfortable mythos are now getting drafted by various great houses in a huge civil war just so they can save face or gain individual honor, a war that will span generations and set the Klingon people back centuries. And in the end, will the victors if any be any less hypocritical?
Worf understands that personal honor must be sublimated to the honor of the Klingon Empire as separate from the current power structure, his loyalty is to the eternal empire and the Klingon people. Political expediency is probably the only reason the Klingons or their empire still exist, and this is due to Klingons like Worf, with a higher understanding of honor.
I see it from Ken’s perspective: If “honor” to Klingons now means a code of vengeance – since it seems honor means nothing else, except maybe ceremony – then why should it fall to Worf to defend it and take on the responsibility of a society that refuses to take responsibility for itself?
And like Ken said, if all it takes is for one Klingon telling the truth to tip the scales of war and peace, it would seem they’re destined to destroy themselves anyway.
I thought of Christians who were so outraged with the “Da Vinci Code”. If a book, movie , shakes your faith.. you had issues beforehand….
I agree w your assessment, but I also like the host, I forget which one, would rather the whole house get burned for its hypocrisy..look in the mirror..don’t like what you see? put in the work….Klingons spouting tales of honor, but lacking it….FAIL
Dax says it best, many years hence. GREAT arc that really pays off in the end!
hmmmm, that is a valid point. But I think protecting the status quo to avoid bloodshed can be harmful as well. Slavery, communism wars, or the Catholic church scandals….not a perfect analogy, but to tolerate corruption, deceit and have a purge and install corrupt officials again would be a reflection on the society and not an indictment against positive actions. Good people gotta keep on fighting the good fight…evil thrives when good people do nothing..or something like that..but also, empathy has limits…too many catch phrases!!
“Let them die….” Admiral James T. Kirk VI:Undiscovered Country
I agree with you (and for the first time in a long time, I disagreed with Ken). I thought this was a testament to the ideas about honor. Knowing how the truth would play out, the High Council, through the lie, was seeking to protect the empire from destruction. I also think it is part of the evolution we see with the Klingon Empire over the course of the series. A warring people that have grown to understand peace, made a (tenuous) peace with the Federation, and are now trying to maintain that peace throughout the empire. I don’t think they have forgotten honor at all. I think they know exactly how important it is to Klingons and are seeking to protect their world from the abuse of that idea of honor. I also think it was very much in Worf’s personality to accept discommendation. In publicly relinquishing his honor, he really kept it. He did the most honorable thing by putting the empire first. Duras was the only one without honor, in my opinion. But he’ll get his…
The concept of honor can be abused? But that would be … uhm … dishonorable, right? Hmmm.
Touché. I just see honor and vengeance being used interchangeably, and that is what I mean by abuse. It is a lose lose situation…
1997 – This episode was released in the “Worf: Return to Grace” Laserdisc and VHS Boxset Collection
flashback Friday!!
Flashfoward 25years later – This Episode was one of the 1st 4 to be remastered in HD- in this sample Blu-ray Disc – that is – all but a missing 13 seconds of footage that could not be found. It was later discovered and added back into the 3rd season BR Release.
its amazing how when we saw isolinear chips we were looking at USB type tech and didn’t even know it….and how even holding a physical chip seems somehow outdated…wOW.- I want to buy BlueRay, but keep thinking, whats next…?I have a few…good stuff! funny how they lose 13 seconds of footage….
What’s Next IS 4K-UltraHD :
http://www.space.com/33170-star-trek-movies-here-4k-uhd.html
Inside sleeve :
Tony Todd “Commander Kurn”
Charles Cooper “K’mpec”
“if you don’t walk the walk, what’s the value of those words?” Hypocrisy doesn’t play by the rules, so to expect rational logic to come thru is….well….unrealistic. These scoundrels or “habidas” or “torzas” just want to keep their noses clean, that’s all. Evolution is painful…War is needed to clean house. Sadly. American Civil War, Vietnam, Korea…ugh, terrible. Wish it were not so. The “moral” decision by Worf, to take one for the team, was well intentioned, but you know where that paved road leads to. So in my opinion it was brutally realistic for Worf to do what he did. Preserve the status quo in a vain attempt to avoid bloodshed among a race of people who relish and adore bloodshed…
Yep. Which is why Ken said, “it seemed like more of a Federation thing to do than Klingon …”
No, no! HERE’s the photo of Tony Todd that readers need to see. Here he is as Admiral Ramirez in Prelude to Axanar. OK, it’s not official Trek, but how can you NOT have mentioned this when you were talking about Todd’s CV?
I enjoyed the Axanar mini film..fun
Ah, but I will always see:
🙂
it was a fun mini movie….
Anyone want to start a Klingon synth band called, “House of Moog”?